Ivan the Terrible proposes to Elizabeth the Great?

So, the moment I heard that this actually happened (did it truly happen, and when?) I thought: Must write Timeline.

Is it in any way plausible for her to say yes? What would be the consequences? Wouldn't she have to convert?

If it is plausible, I'm writing the timeline.

Finn said:

So, the moment I heard that this actually happened (did it truly happen, and when?) I thought: Must write Timeline.

Is it in any way plausible for her to say yes? What would be the consequences? Wouldn't she have to convert?

If it is plausible, I'm writing the timeline.

Click to expand...

Whether she converts or not, this is going to piss off a number of people (not least being the French, who kept trying to propose to Elizabeth I in OTL)

So probably she and Ivan keep to their respective denominations, and if they have multiple kids, at least one kid is baptized into one of the parents' faiths.

Dynastic Union Of England And Russia.


please write this. it's far more plausible than what I tried writing (Morocco joins the newly-independent USA)

Any children they produced could either be excellent rulers or evil despots depending on if Ivan's more malign personality traits assert themselves.

You'd have to have the marriage occur in one of the openings between one of Ivan's eight marriages (talk about scary). Although Russia and England first established a diplomatic relationship in the reign of Edward, Elizabeth was more concerned with commerce with Russia, whilst Ivan desired more. His interest in Elizabeth apparently dates towards the end of his reign, when he desired asylum in England, for some reason. 1580s is way too late for any kind of marriage -- Elizabeth is by then past childbearing. It'd have to happen in the early part of her reign, the later 1550s or early 1560s.

Honestly, I can't see the two marrying. Elizabeth marrying the Danish Crown Prince of the Swedish King seems much more likely. The biggest issue is religion; Elizabeth certainly isn't going to convert to Orthodoxy and I don't see Ivan coming around to Protestantism anytime soon. There is also the matter of distance; it'd be difficult for Elizabeth to effectively govern from Moscow and likewise for Ivan to govern from London... I also can't see the two really getting along. Two very dominant personalities, sounds like they'd definately clash.

Who is this Danish Prince? What if she grants Ivan asylum anyway? What if by some crazy fate they do marry, with Ivan in England claiming to be the true Tsar as opposed to some (probably sane) pretender?

There was a joke in grad school that, if Elizabeth had accepted this proposal, Ivan the Terrible would quickly have become Ivan the Terrified.

Considering how much Elizabeth enjoyed playing Continental princes against each other by toying with their proposals but never actually accepting any, I think it's almost certain that she'd tell Ivan 'nyet' but perhaps might have sent something more significant than a boat (which is the possible origin of the boat that inspired the boy Tsar Peter the Great and is called the 'Grandfather of the Russian Navy).

It may be possible for Ivan the Terrible and Elizabeth I to marry if these criterias are met:

1) Ivan IV's mother successfully stays alive long enough to raise her son in a proper manner after having the Shuiskys discredited for the death of Vasily III.

2) I'm not sure if Elizabeth I and her followers would be exiled to Russia after the Spanish Armada obliterates the English fleet. (However, they would have to attack on the day that isn't stormy or something.)

3) With Ivan IV's mother staying alive, Ivan IV never becomes so Terrible and actually becomes less paranoid.

I should point out that Elizabeth was not "the Great"; only one English monarch was ever "the Great", and that was Alfred. Elizabeth's title was Gloriana. Interesting WI, though.

EDIT: Did not realise this was thread necromancy.

Thande said:

I should point out that Elizabeth was not "the Great"; only one English monarch was ever "the Great", and that was Alfred. Elizabeth's title was Gloriana. Interesting WI, though.

EDIT: Did not realise this was thread necromancy.

Click to expand...

Well, shall I make a new thread on this one then, just to avoid thread necromancy?

She wouldn't say yes. Ivan's Muscowy was a far away land, and England would not gain anything from such an alliance.

Maybe she just liked the cut of his gib.

But in another point, he was a good leader until he snapped.

yourworstnightmare said:

She wouldn't say yes. Ivan's Muscowy was a far away land, and England would not gain anything from such an alliance.

Click to expand...

What about further commerce between England and Russia? Also, there is another issue of how Russia can get a navy earlier than Peter the Great's era.