A Second White Rose - Edmund, Earl of Rutland Survives
- Thread starter Zestinobambino
- Start date
Käthe can be used in its own right - it was for my great aunt. But Katrin (my aunt's name) would probably be more likely, I agree
Bilingual myself,so if you need anything translating, drop me a line
Katalin is Hungarian.
Did not know that.Käthe can be used in its own right - it was for my great aunt. But Katrin (my aunt's name) would probably be more likely, I agree
Noted. With the pile of shit we know as the English education system, I can only speak English, sadly. I have a pretty solid grasp on what I would call “tourist Spanish”, but that’s all.Bilingual myself,so if you need anything translating, drop me a line
Ramontxo
Donor
And Basque
BAIONAN KANTUZ - ENE MAITE KATTALIN - 23/02/2019
Edited to change the video
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Chapter Twenty-Four: Life on the Edge
Chapter Twenty-Four: Life on the Edge
Since King Francis II had secured Brittany’s independence from France in 1477, his policies had focused on ensuring that his new kingdom would not immediately be re-absorbed into France when he died. He aimed to create a lasting Breton kingdom, and foreign alliances were his best option for this. The Breton twins - Francis II and Margaret of Foix’s children Margaret and Richard, both born in 1478 - both received foreign spouses. Margaret of Brittany was betrothed to Richard V, Duke of Normandy, the son of King Edward IV of England. Francis II sent Jean IV de Rieux to Spain in 1483 to negotiate an alliance there, and he succeeded in securing the hand of Maria of Aragon for Francis’s heir Richard, Count of Étampes. But Francis’s plans were put in danger not by Charles IX’s threatened invasion in 1487, but by the death of his wife Margaret of Foix in June 1485, shortly after giving birth to a premature son they named Jean. Sadly, Jean died with his mother. With only one son, Francis’s dream of a strong and surviving Brittany - while not in complete danger - was precarious, and he sent Jean III, Count of Penthièvre to England to negotiate for the hand of Edward IV’s eldest daughter, the twenty-two-year old Cecily of York, who had been betrothed to King Charles VIII. The age gap between the two was significant - Francis was born in 1433 and Cecily in 1465, but Francis assumed that a younger bride would give him more time to have more children. However, Edward deeply disagreed with the thirty-two year age gap, and refused the marriage. Instead, he suggested that Francis marry his sister Elizabeth, dowager Duchess of Suffolk. With an age gap of just eleven years, Edward felt far more comfortable in offering Elizabeth, and Francis accepted the offer, hoping that he would still be able to have children with Elizabeth. They were married in Nantes on 1st May 1486. Indeed, fate proved that Elizabeth was a perfectly suitable match for Francis II - by the time Charles IX was ready to invade, she was five months pregnant with their first child. This child would be the second son that Francis desired. The boy was born on 16th July 1487 and was named Arthur after Francis's predecessor to the ducal throne, Duke Arthur III.
Charles IX made it clear from the start that he had no intention of conquering Brittany - although he disagreed with its independence, he accepted it, and would not try to overthrow it. All he wanted was to have Louis, Duke of Orleans transferred to French authority in order to ensure that he didn’t make any claims on the French throne, and that he would use force if need be to get him. Politically, Orleans was isolated - he had no heirs to arrange marriages with, since his wife - Joan de Valois, second daughter of Louis XI - was too deformed to carry children. But the Bretons had no desire to give in to any French demand. This was Francis II’s first real test since securing Brittany’s independence: if he gave in too willingly to Charles IX, it would set the tone for a future of submission to France, with an eventual re-absorption into France. Such a state would not be allowed, so Francis resolved to make war. Fate provided for Orleans on 23rd March 1487, not even a week after the Battle of Le Mans, when Joan de Valois’s deformities got the better of her, and she passed away in her sleep.
The next two months saw a brief war between Brittany and France. King Francis II bravely mustered an army of 8,000 men, who were joined by another 2,000 men who had rebelled with Nicholas, Duke of Lorraine. While during Lorraine’s rebellion Francis had been unwilling to act against France, France was now acting against Brittany, shedding Francis of any qualms to do battle. Francis led an attack on a French encampment at Laval, halfway between Le Mans and Rennes, on 2nd April. He also sent word to William, Count of Clermont to ask the English administration in Normandy for help, since the Duke of Normandy was set to marry Francis’s daughter Margaret. William sent a small force of 600 men to Brittany, many of whom fought at Fougères on 5th May. However, this war was just a series of unrelated skirmishes, none of which had much consequence on the next.
With the heirs to both Brittany and France set to marry a Spanish princess, Ferdinand and Isabella believed they were in a good position to act as mediators between Charles IX and Francis II. Ferdinand sent Juan II, Count of Ribagorza to act as a peacemaker between the two kingdoms, bringing Charles and Francis together in the town of Angers on 2nd June 1487. Francis was slowly talked around to the idea of handing Orleans over to Charles IX, but Orleans and Queen Elizabeth had different ideas. Elizabeth planned on sending Orleans to England to meet with her brother Edward IV and nephew Edmund, Duke of Lancaster, who was now taking on more responsibility in crown politics, who could then put the resources of England behind Orleans in pressing his claim to the throne as King Louis XII. As well as that, Orleans would be able to build his support base by promising to restore the French nobles in England, Peter, Duke of Bourbon and Gaston de Foix, Earl of Kendal, to their lands. However, before Orleans could depart, he received an alternative offer - a Burgundian messenger arrived in Nantes, sent by Elizabeth’s sister Anne, inviting Louis, Duke of Orleans to join Anne and her son Prince Philip IV in Bruges.
Bruges, 17th August 1487
As far as Louis knew, technically speaking, the capital of the Principality of Burgundy was the city of Dijon. But much more money - and thus attention of the government - could be found in the Low Countries, so its effective capital ended up being Bruges, the largest city within the independent parts of the Burgundian Low Countries.
Louis was now sat in a chair in the Prince’s Palace, right in the centre of Bruges, with a ring of Burgundy’s most important men and women. The prince himself was here - a dashing young man, recently turned twenty-one years old and therefore now in his majority rule. His mother Anne, Duchess of Burgundy (Philip had bestowed the title of Duchess upon his mother as his first act in his majority rule, to reflect that she was the last woman who could hold such a title) was also here, and Louis could see much similarity between Anne and her sister Queen Elizabeth of Brittany.
Anne’s nephew and Philip’s cousin Lionel, Earl of Northampton was here too. Officially he was the English ambassador to Burgundy as Captain of Calais, but his close friendship with Philip had made it so that he was one of Philip’s top advisors. Plus, he was married to Philip’s half-sister Emma, who was sat across from Louis with her sister Marie of Burgundy, recently widowed by the death of Nicholas, Duke of Lorraine.
Finally, Maximilian Habsburg and Anne de Valois were here. They were not Burgundian nobility, no - but as King of the Romans, and Philip’s brother-in-law, his word held sway in Burgundy, most of which was still a part of the Holy Roman Empire. And Anne de Valois, well... it was because of her Orleans was here.
“As you know I do obviously not have the right to claim the French throne myself, being a woman.” Anne said to Orleans, who listened closely. “But I desire Berry’s downfall. Regardless of what the Pope says, I know he killed my brother. He has no right to that throne, and neither does his son. Which means, you are the rightful king of France, in my eyes.” Anne said.
“Which also means that the Empire will support you.” Maximilian added. “I am still trying to convince my father to allow me to fight with imperial resources, but until then there is always my Duchy of Languedoc to raise men from.”
“That is good.” Orleans said. “But if I am to become king, I may need more than promises of armies.”
“Then how about this: I would like to offer my hand to you as your wife.” Marie of Burgundy said in a no-nonsense voice. “If you accept this offer, then my brother Philip has agreed to put Burgundy’s resources behind your claim to the throne, and you do not need to look back in history far to see what happens when Burgundy goes to war with France.” Marie said.
“True enough,” Orleans said, almost laughing. “I would love to accept your most gracious offer.”
Marie smiled, but then a knight burst through the door. Louis vaguely recognised him, and his mind conjured up the name Raphael de Mercatellis, second of that name, the first being Raphael’s father and one of many illegitimate children of Philip III of Burgundy. That made Raphael the Younger one of Philip IV’s many, many bastard cousins.
“Your Highnesses!” He exclaimed, waving a scroll.
“What is it, Raphael?” Philip asked.
“A messenger just delivered this to me, your Highness. News from Rome.” Raphael said breathlessly. “Pope Innocent VIII has declared a crusade.”
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@Zestinobambino Amazing work! And what a twist! France Will have to wait! This tales precedente! SMASH the turks
Matthias might get his wish after all!
Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I did initially write it to be Cecily that marries Francis, but I just couldn't see Edward agreeing to a 32 year age gap for her.
And maybe...
That he might! And hoping that John proves a good succesor.Matthias might get his wish after all!
Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I did initially write it to be Cecily that marries Francis, but I just couldn't see Edward agreeing to a 32 year age gap for her.
And maybe...
Np. Happy to help. And hope she and Philip very much secure burgundy. 😉
Great chapter @Zestinobambino , we're getting a War of French Succession soon, I like it. It's going to definitely be chaotic, a lot of land will be swapped between multiple players 😎😎.
Keep up the great work 👍 👍 👍 👍
I wonder where the crusade is going? Most likely to the Balkans to stop any advancements by the Ottomans into Hungary. It will be interesting to see if it's successful or not. I'd be satisfied if the crusade ends in the retaking of Constantinople, it'll open up more crusades out east 😎😎.
Keep up the great work 👍 👍 👍 👍
It's going to be a chaotic war, and very much not limited just to France. As for the crusade, Matthias is currently planning on just pushing the Ottomans back - but that doesn't mean it won't go further, or open the doors for future crusades to go further.
Just posting this to start a bit of discussion. I’m thinking about Edmund, Duke of Rutland’s kids and their marriages. His eldest son Lionel is married to Emma of Burgundy, but that still leaves six kids:
- Thomas (1467)
- Joanna (1471)
- Edmund (1473)
- Cecily (1476)
- Edward (1477)
- Emma (1480)
For Joanna, John de Bourbon, and for Cecily, Daniel de Foix? Ambitious and gambles perhaps, but there’d be futures keeping them close in England if not as magnates in France.
Emma could be a match for William Tudor, the future Duke of Somerset. Or Edward Percy.
Thomas could marry an heiress if one can be found. Anne Hastings if not? The younger boys might try for Anne FitzAlan or Maud Tudor, but I agree some Irish matches may be beneficial instead.
Emma could be a match for William Tudor, the future Duke of Somerset. Or Edward Percy.
Thomas could marry an heiress if one can be found. Anne Hastings if not? The younger boys might try for Anne FitzAlan or Maud Tudor, but I agree some Irish matches may be beneficial instead.
Cecily bonville for thomas? Very unlikely she marries her otl husband thomas grey, since he will be nowhere near having the same amount of influence with edward. And even if they had married she would be a widow since grey died in the war.